<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1281</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	10/30/99 3:45:43 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 30 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1281<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Traveller 3D Art Mailing List (was Re: 3D Art)<BR>
Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe<BR>
Interactive fiction<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:51:39 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
Canada is still not a valid comparison.  There are still major cultural<BR>
differences.  Biggest one.  What is the greatest hero ingrained in the two<BR>
cultures?  Cowboys for US, RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) for Canada.<BR>
Two entirely different cultural icons that affect the very roots of the two<BR>
cultures outlooks.  The cowboy always "took care of business", while the<BR>
Mountie was there to protect you.  The gun is deeply ingrained in the<BR>
American culture, dating back to the War for Independance.<BR>
<BR>
The only truly valid statistics are those *within* a society, which is why<BR>
comparing the US restrictions and political abhorance of so-called "assault<BR>
weapons" vs. the fact that most able bodied Swiss males have a TRUE (i.e.<BR>
select fire) assault weapon in their home is not valid.  There are cultural<BR>
differences.<BR>
<BR>
WITHIN the US, those states that moved to a "shall-issue" concealed carry<BR>
permit system have always shown significant drops in assault, rape, murder,<BR>
etc., while those municipalities and states that outright ban weapons always<BR>
tend to have the highest murder rates.  Washington DC & New York City are<BR>
prime examples.  Handguns are ILLEGAL in both, yet DC was the murder capitol<BR>
of the US for many years.  If guns are outlawed in a society such as the US<BR>
that has an ingrained gun culture, than only the criminals will have guns.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, didn't mean to climb onto a soapbox there.  I'll get down now in<BR>
hopes that we won't ignite a 2nd Amendment flame fest.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
"If the 2nd Amendment was as doggedly defended as the 1st Amendment, then<BR>
everyone in the US would be required to have a nuclear missle at home for<BR>
self defense!"<BR>
- - Unknown author commending on the 2nd Amendment issue.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 8:04 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Japanese kids watch cartoons, movies, and tv shows that are more violent<BR>
>>than what we see in North America, and they play more violent video games.<BR>
>>Yet the crime rate over there is much lower than it is here. However,<BR>
since<BR>
>>I do not want to start (yet another) debate about the Second Amendment, I<BR>
>>will refrain from drawing a conclusion in this forum. :-D<BR>
><BR>
>Yeah, well the Japanese don't eat cheese. So statistically, you could argue<BR>
>that we should give up cheese!<BR>
<BR>
Your argument makes sense only if you can show a connection between<BR>
cheese and violence in the first place. If you're going to post arguments,<BR>
please at least try to make them intelligent ones. Not to mention, relevant<BR>
ones.<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri can correct me if I'm wrong, but my Japanese friends tell me that<BR>
>Japan has a much higher level of social control than America. Leave your<BR>
>trash can out of place on the curb and the "trash lady" comes to warn you.<BR>
>Keep doing it and the neighbourhood reacts. This factor should be taken<BR>
>into account.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, how about an example closer to home? Canadians watch the same<BR>
violent TV and movies that Americans do. Canada's level of social control<BR>
is for the most part the same as what one finds in the USA. On the other<BR>
hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada<BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:53:47 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller 3D Art Mailing List (was Re: 3D Art)<BR>
<BR>
That's actually part of the idea for Trav3D.  I was going to propose that in<BR>
the mail I'm putting together.  More soon.<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 8:17 AM<BR>
Subject: Traveller 3D Art Mailing List (was Re: 3D Art)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>        There seem to be several of us tinkering and toodling to varying<BR>
>degrees with 3D stuff for Traveller.  Would anyone like me to set up a<BR>
>mailing list on my box where we can jaw about anything we've figured out<BR>
>relative to modeling "Objects Traveller", get peer-group feedback and such?<BR>
><BR>
>        If you are interested, please RSVP off-list.<BR>
><BR>
>        --Michel<BR>
><BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> Michel R. Vaillancourt misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
> ICQ # 31172292<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
>     NET-City Communications....<BR>
>          Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
> ***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
> -+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:57:13 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
Nope.  Tried Microsoft's home page?  Maybe there?<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 11:25 AM<BR>
Subject: opengl95.exe<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>opengl95.exe<BR>
><BR>
>Any of you 3d artists out there have a copy of this file?  I can't find<BR>
>anywhere.<BR>
><BR>
>----------------------------------------------<BR>
>he he he he he he he he he he he he<BR>
><BR>
>      Shimmer<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:04:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe<BR>
<BR>
> I could reproduce some of the details here if anyone is interested.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, please do, I love the Alderson Drive concept. I'll be doing some<BR>
searches on the web using keywords harvested from this post, but I am sure<BR>
this list in general would like a summary and perhaps some Traveller type<BR>
commentary. Rules interpretation, canon comparison, etc.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:16:24 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Interactive fiction<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
If anyone out there remembers the old days of "interactive fiction," =<BR>
(Adventure, Zork, etc), I have finished the logic for an IF walkthrough =<BR>
of a Type S scout/courrier. If anyone has really good descriptions of =<BR>
any of the rooms they would like included in this exercise, let me know. =<BR>
You can now enter through the airlock, walk around the ship, and open =<BR>
and close doors. Ideas for developing this into something more =<BR>
interesting will also be appreciated.=20<BR>
<BR>
If anyone is interested in having this exercise adapted to other ships, =<BR>
drop me a line also. It's very easy to adapt the core logic to other =<BR>
ships.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, in case anyone cares, the tool used to produce the z-machine =<BR>
code was Inform 6.21. If you don't know what that means, you probably =<BR>
will not care.<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin<BR>
martin@ksarul.com<BR>
<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF22E1.591CAA20<BR>
Content-Type: text/html;<BR>
	charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR>
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><HEAD><BR>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><BR>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR><BR>
<STYLE></STYLE><BR>
</HEAD><BR>
<BR>
<DIV>If anyone out there remembers the old =<BR>
days of=20<BR>
"interactive fiction," (Adventure, Zork, etc), I have finished the logic =<BR>
for an=20<BR>
IF walkthrough of a Type S scout/courrier. If anyone has really good=20<BR>
descriptions of any of the rooms they would like included in this =<BR>
exercise, let=20<BR>
me know. You can now enter through the airlock, walk around the ship, =<BR>
and open=20<BR>
and close doors. Ideas for developing this into something more =<BR>
interesting will=20<BR>
also be appreciated. </DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>If anyone is interested in having this =<BR>
exercise=20<BR>
adapted to other ships, drop me a line also. It's very easy to adapt the =<BR>
core=20<BR>
logic to other ships.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Finally, in case anyone cares, the tool =<BR>
used to=20<BR>
produce the z-machine code was Inform 6.21. If you don't know what that =<BR>
means,=20<BR>
you probably will not care.</DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Luther Martin</DIV><BR>
<DIV><A=20<BR>
href=3D"mailto:martin@ksarul.com">martin@ksarul.com</DIV></BOD=<BR>
Y><BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:48:53 -0600<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
>>hand, Canada's violent crime rate is a small fraction of the USA's.<BR>
><BR>
>Canada also has a much smaller population, which is a bit less diverse than<BR>
>ours, and far less concentrated. <BR>
<BR>
A city of 750,000 people, such as the one I live in, is still a city of<BR>
750,000 people. And I'm not sure one can claim less diversity anymore up<BR>
here.<BR>
<BR>
> They also don't get hellish summers,<BR>
<BR>
The summer weather in Canada's largest city, Toronto, is about the<BR>
same as that of Detroit and Buffalo, and not too different from<BR>
Chicago, maybe a tad cooler than Washington DC (but not a lot). Yet<BR>
its violent crime rate is a fraction of any of these.<BR>
<BR>
>which has a stastisical effect on violent crime.  We also have a cultural<BR>
>tradition of violence. <BR>
<BR>
True enough. A lot of the difference can be attributed to some of the<BR>
differences in our respective histories. (Eg, civil rights and the<BR>
black population -- Canada is where the Underground Railroad brought<BR>
the escaped slaves, for instance.) Something for those who perceive<BR>
Canada as an extension of the USA to think about. :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:04:00 -0600<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
>I do not want to start (yet another) debate about the Second Amendment, I<BR>
>will refrain from drawing a conclusion in this forum. :-D<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think that's it, either.  I believe in the Second Amendment, I think<BR>
>that in America, it's necessary.  The type of government oppression that it<BR>
>was designed to forestall would be resisted differently in Japan-- and in<BR>
>Japan, you don't have people living so far away from one another that by the<BR>
>time the police arrive, the females in the house have been raped, the<BR>
>valuables taken, and possibly the males have been killed.  There are still<BR>
>fairly big stretches of America, growing with rural depopulation and the<BR>
>rise of factory farming, where this is the case.<BR>
<BR>
This is also the case in Canada (ie, low population density) -- in fact,<BR>
it's probably more so here than south of the border. Yet we don't have <BR>
- -- or need -- anything like the Second Amendment, since our violent crime <BR>
rate is lower. The question is, is our crime rate lower because we have<BR>
fewer guns, or do Americans have more guns because their crime rate is<BR>
higher? Chicken, or egg? :)<BR>
<BR>
>> Leave your trash can out of place on the curb and the "trash lady" comes<BR>
>to warn you.  Keep doing it and the neighbourhood reacts. This factor should<BR>
>be taken into account.<BR>
<BR>
>I think there's a high level of social control in AMERICA.  Total strangers<BR>
>will come up to you and tell you that you shouldn't smoke, you're too fat to<BR>
>eat this or that, God help you if you're pregnant and you dare to eat<BR>
>anything in public because someone will have an opinion about it...<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of the time I was eating a burger at a local mall fast-food<BR>
court and was accosted by a vegetarian animal-rights fanatic about my<BR>
choice of food. (It's a good thing that the mall security came by and<BR>
kicked him out, as I was giving serious thought to the idea of force-<BR>
feeding the rest of my burger to the guy...)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Do the K'kree send anti-carnivore propaganda into the buffer<BR>
zone between Imperial and K'Kree space?<BR>
<BR>
>People walk right up to you and ask you to change your religion, and they're<BR>
>not respectful about it either.<BR>
<BR>
I hate it when people do that. Sometimes they come by my house and ring<BR>
the doorbell -- I've taken to closing the door in their faces without<BR>
comment... I don't go around telling people to give up their religions and<BR>
become an athiest, and expect the same courtesy from others...<BR>
<BR>
(I'm suddenly reminded of a scene from -- I think -- the movie "Airplane",<BR>
where the hero is accosted one by one in turn by several different religious<BR>
types in the airport, which he deals with in an increasingly violent<BR>
manner...)<BR>
<BR>
>I've been asked really rude questions by<BR>
>people I had never seen before about pentacles, prayer beads, etc.  People<BR>
>stand outside of clinics and shout at you about medical procedures they<BR>
>disapprove of.<BR>
<BR>
And we're not allowed to carry flamethrowers in public to deal with them<BR>
either...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav again: do Imperial starports get the religious missionary types<BR>
in them like the stereotypical American airports do? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:09:29 -0500<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
On 10/31/99 at 09:29 AM,  "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:<BR>
<BR>
>The "physics" of Alderson Dives were worked out in detail by Dan<BR>
>Alderson from CalTech to Jerry's requirements , as well as how to<BR>
>locate Alderson points, and this was all explained in one of Jerry's<BR>
>articles in Galaxy, "Building the Mote In God's Eye" which was later<BR>
>republished in the collection "A Step Further Out", which in itself<BR>
>is a wonderful quick reference for all sorts of Travelleresque stuff.<BR>
<BR>
I have "A Step Further Out"...somewhere, but what box it is buried<BR>
in I don't know.<BR>
<BR>
>I could reproduce some of the details here if anyone is interested.<BR>
<BR>
I'm interested! It'll save me from having to find that book. <g><BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> > I think the MiGE/CoD universe would be a great place to play, but<BR>
>it > needs a well thought out setup.  I don't think either Pournelle<BR>
>or > Nivin rpg, or have any interest in rpging.  I'd also lay you<BR>
>odds > that they would want a nice hefty licensing fee to use their ><BR>
>background in anything commercial.<BR>
<BR>
>Larry Niven seemed fine with other people writing in the "Known<BR>
>Universe", there are quite a lot of people who have written "Known<BR>
>Univere" stories, and authors in general aren't heavily into<BR>
>"licensing" their universes, they are normally flattered if you ask<BR>
>to write something in their settiing, and are really only concerned<BR>
>with whether you voiolate their idea of what the universe is like,<BR>
>which usually means they ask for veto rights on publication or at<BR>
>least some sort of editorial control..<BR>
<BR>
I believe there was something about transplanting Kzin to the<BR>
Startrek universe that Niven didn't like wasn't there?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>In fact, one can reuse someone's ideas without permission, because<BR>
>copyright only covers the actual words in the book, _not_ ideas.<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, we should be polite and ask for permission anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, courtesy requires it! <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:15:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
<BR>
Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Please give ME the Uzi SMG to play with!  Please?  Pretty please??  :)<BR>
>I've shot a Cobray M11, a MAC10, and an HK MP5, but I haven't shot an UZI<BR>
>('cept for a 16" barrel semi auto carbine version a LLLOOOOONNNNNGGGGG time<BR>
>ago ;)<BR>
<BR>
We can fix *that* little problem in about 2 months. :^)<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
   "Remember that a government big enough to give you everything<BR>
    you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."<BR>
    --Col. David Crockett; member of the Tennessee legislature<BR>
    (1821-1822/1823-1824); member U.S. House of Representatives<BR>
    (1827-1831/1833-1835); and Texas Hero of the Alamo (1836)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:30:32 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>I think the MiGE/CoD universe would be a great place to play, but it<BR>
>needs a well thought out setup.  I don't think either Pournelle or<BR>
>Nivin rpg, or have any interest in rpging.  I'd also lay you odds<BR>
>that they would want a nice hefty licensing fee to use their<BR>
>background in anything commercial.  I don't even know if it would be<BR>
>legal to develop something non-commercial based on the MiGE universe<BR>
>for more than personal use.<BR>
><BR>
>It certainly *would* be an interesting project.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
If that is the same universe containing Ringworld, it's already been a<BR>
chaosium liscence.... Tho I myself would like to see more (especially if<BR>
The Smoke Ring is also in the same universe...)<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:30:33 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences<BR>
<BR>
"Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com> typed thusly:<BR>
<BR>
>No flames please.  This isn't intended to be an anti-American post; it's<BR>
>intended to get you to look at things from a slightly different perspective.<BR>
<BR>
 Certainly. The only thing I really disagree with is:<BR>
<BR>
<I've been to Japan, I'm rather familiar with the place, McDonalds puts<BR>
>cheese on the burgers there, too.<BR>
<BR>
 You mean they put cheese on their cheeseburgers HERE? Could have<BR>
fooled me...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:40:37 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
<BR>
And believe-you-me, I'm lookin' forward to it!  Too bad your club only has<BR>
those events every six months :)<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@peak.org><BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, October 30, 1999 3:25 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Playing with Uzis...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net> writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>Please give ME the Uzi SMG to play with!  Please?  Pretty please??  :)<BR>
>>I've shot a Cobray M11, a MAC10, and an HK MP5, but I haven't shot an UZI<BR>
>>('cept for a 16" barrel semi auto carbine version a LLLOOOOONNNNNGGGGG<BR>
time<BR>
>>ago ;)<BR>
><BR>
>We can fix *that* little problem in about 2 months. :^)<BR>
><BR>
>        - Mark C.<BR>
>          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
>          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
>          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
>          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
>          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
><BR>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
> 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
> Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
>   "Remember that a government big enough to give you everything<BR>
>    you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."<BR>
>    --Col. David Crockett; member of the Tennessee legislature<BR>
>    (1821-1822/1823-1824); member U.S. House of Representatives<BR>
>    (1827-1831/1833-1835); and Texas Hero of the Alamo (1836)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:46:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alderson Drives and the MiGE Universe (was Re: Traveller: Aberrant jump drives (was Re: Just say "no" to lhyd))<BR>
<BR>
> I believe there was something about transplanting Kzin to the<BR>
> Startrek universe that Niven didn't like wasn't there?<BR>
<BR>
Odd you should mention that, I was using Alta Vista to search about<BR>
A-Drives, and bumped into a links page with that as a link. I didn't go<BR>
there, so it may be dead, but something along those lines is/was out there.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:02:38 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:30:32 -0400 (EDT), "William F. Hostman"<BR>
<aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>I think the MiGE/CoD universe would be a great place to play, but it<BR>
>>needs a well thought out setup.  I don't think either Pournelle or<BR>
>>Nivin rpg, or have any interest in rpging.  I'd also lay you odds<BR>
>>that they would want a nice hefty licensing fee to use their<BR>
>>background in anything commercial.  I don't even know if it would be<BR>
>>legal to develop something non-commercial based on the MiGE universe<BR>
>>for more than personal use.<BR>
>><BR>
>>It certainly *would* be an interesting project.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>If that is the same universe containing Ringworld, it's already been a<BR>
>chaosium liscence.... Tho I myself would like to see more (especially if<BR>
>The Smoke Ring is also in the same universe...)<BR>
><BR>
Ringworld and the Smoke Ring are in Larry Niven's Known Universe. The<BR>
Codominion is in a separate universe. I like them both but they don't<BR>
really go together.<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get <BR>
 used to the idea."                  - Robert A. Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:20:31 -0400<BR>
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
> >I don't think that's it, either.  I believe in the Second Amendment, I<BR>
think<BR>
> >that in America, it's necessary.  The type of government oppression that<BR>
it<BR>
> >was designed to forestall would be resisted differently in Japan-- and in<BR>
> >Japan, you don't have people living so far away from one another that by<BR>
the<BR>
> >time the police arrive, the females in the house have been raped, the<BR>
> >valuables taken, and possibly the males have been killed.  There are<BR>
still<BR>
> >fairly big stretches of America, growing with rural depopulation and the<BR>
> >rise of factory farming, where this is the case.<BR>
><BR>
> This is also the case in Canada (ie, low population density) -- in fact,<BR>
> it's probably more so here than south of the border. Yet we don't have<BR>
> -- or need -- anything like the Second Amendment, since our violent crime<BR>
> rate is lower. The question is, is our crime rate lower because we have<BR>
> fewer guns, or do Americans have more guns because their crime rate is<BR>
> higher? Chicken, or egg? :)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry to jump in here, but I'm a hopeless compulsive when it comes to<BR>
constitutional debates.  The "right to bear arms" has little to do with<BR>
crime rates, so your chicken vs. egg analogy has no bearing.  The right to<BR>
defend oneself against any threat is a basic human right.  Having the right<BR>
to bear arms and actually owning a gun are separate parts of the equation.<BR>
Separate, too, is the question of gun crime vs. other violent crimes.  The<BR>
reason there are more gun crimes in the US may be related to the fact that<BR>
there are more guns.  But the fact is, guns or no guns, there is more crime<BR>
in the US.  Probably has something to do with enforcing laws.  It takes only<BR>
a few days and very little money to make laws here, currently.  Enforcement<BR>
is much harder, more costly and more time consuming.  There are many other<BR>
social and cultural differences, as well.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The duke brokered a complete disarmament of both sides in a<BR>
world-wide skirmish on Podunk/Backwater many years ago.  Today the natives<BR>
are renowned for their stealth and hand-to-hand combat skills.  It is said<BR>
that you should never offer your hand in greeting to a Podunkian if you want<BR>
it back.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
The TRAVELLER Domain<BR>
http://www.downport.com<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:18:43 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
> >I think there's a high level of social control in AMERICA.  Total strangers<BR>
> >will come up to you and tell you that you shouldn't smoke, you're too fat to<BR>
> >eat this or that, God help you if you're pregnant and you dare to eat<BR>
> >anything in public because someone will have an opinion about it...<BR>
> <BR>
> Reminds me of the time I was eating a burger at a local mall fast-food<BR>
> court and was accosted by a vegetarian animal-rights fanatic about my<BR>
> choice of food. (It's a good thing that the mall security came by and<BR>
> kicked him out, as I was giving serious thought to the idea of force-<BR>
> feeding the rest of my burger to the guy...)<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of the time a militant vegetarian made the mistake of <BR>
assuming the Goths of alt.gothic were necessarily left-wing animal<BR>
rights nuts.  Heh.  Funny thread that wound up with everyone listing<BR>
their favorite steak houses and how they liked their steaks. And <BR>
when the goth hunters chimed in with hunting techniques...  Oy.<BR>
<BR>
Alt.g was also about half-and-half gun control nuts and 2nd Amendment<BR>
fanatics--seems that many persons-in-black like to be able defend<BR>
themselves from creeps who think its okay to beat up and abuse someone<BR>
just because they are of a fringe minority.<BR>
<BR>
In my experience, you cut the legs out from under animal-rights<BR>
nuts' arguments when you just grin and say, "So? I *LIKE* killing<BR>
and eating my own food".  This torpedoes their appeals to your<BR>
compassion and humanity towards their little furry friends...<BR>
(So much the better if you can then talk authoritatively about<BR>
which rounds and loads to use on different kinds of game.)<BR>
Then do a Ted Nugent and asking them about the leather shoes<BR>
they are wearing or the leather purse they are carrying.<BR>
<BR>
And listening to Dr. Laura, I heard her give a biblical <BR>
argument to a militant vegetarian once: she pointed out <BR>
that God Himself authorized humans to eat meat after the <BR>
Flood, so what was the caller's problem? If God gave it to <BR>
us to eat, who did the caller think he was to say it is wrong?<BR>
<BR>
> >People walk right up to you and ask you to change your religion, and they're<BR>
> >not respectful about it either.<BR>
> <BR>
> I hate it when people do that. Sometimes they come by my house and ring<BR>
> the doorbell -- I've taken to closing the door in their faces without<BR>
> comment... I don't go around telling people to give up their religions and<BR>
> become an athiest, and expect the same courtesy from others...<BR>
<BR>
I don't like that approach because it turns people off and <BR>
drives them away from something they might have been drawn to<BR>
and gained great benefit from otherwise. (Yes, I'm Christian.)<BR>
<BR>
> >I've been asked really rude questions by<BR>
> >people I had never seen before about pentacles, prayer beads, etc.  People<BR>
> >stand outside of clinics and shout at you about medical procedures they<BR>
> >disapprove of.<BR>
> <BR>
> And we're not allowed to carry flamethrowers in public to deal with them<BR>
> either...<BR>
<BR>
Let's not go there, as I have diametrically opposed views.<BR>
We don't need flamethrowing on the TML over abortion.<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:28:50 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
> >ONE DAY IN PEACE<BR>
> ><BR>
> >JANUARY 1st, 2000<BR>
> ><BR>
> >This a 24 hour concept where no guns are fired anywhere on earth,<BR>
> >including on television. What if: for 24 hours, whosoever was at war<BR>
> >in December 1999,agrees that for one whole day, no guns would  be<BR>
> >fired. The silence would be golden. What if: the television<BR>
> >programmers of the world agreed NOT to air any programming with a<BR>
> >violent content?<BR>
> <BR>
> Great. Just what we need, an entire day with nothing good on TV.<BR>
<BR>
Heh. I got to agree with you and the other guy. However,<BR>
I will refrain from shooting anyone who doesn't try to kill<BR>
or cause grievous bodily harm to me or my loved ones on that<BR>
day.  Heck, I pretty much refrain that way all the time. <BR>
<BR>
> >What if people boycotted movies with violent content?<BR>
<BR>
Movies would get really boring. Please go read the nearest<BR>
Joseph Campbell book for some understanding of why heroes<BR>
must have foes and causes worthy of them.<BR>
<BR>
> But I *like* movies with violent content...<BR>
<BR>
Ditto. <BR>
<BR>
> Looks like on January 1st I'm going to have to run an action film<BR>
> marathon. Let's see... Starship Troopers, Commando (Schwarzenegger),<BR>
> The Running Man (Arnie again), Robocop, Die Hard 1 & 2, Terminator 1<BR>
> & 2... I own all of these, except Commando (which I can borrow from my<BR>
> mom).<BR>
<BR>
How 'bout GOOD action movies instead? ;-) I haven't seen Starship<BR>
Troopers, so I can't comment, original Robocop is good, avoid the<BR>
sequels, Die Hard 1, 2 AND 3, cool, Terminator 1 & 2, coolest.<BR>
Add: True Lies (Arnie again), a few of the more interesting Van<BR>
Damme flicks like Time Cop, and, of course, some Jackie Chan.<BR>
<BR>
> >I don't believe that censoring the media will make the world a more<BR>
> >peaceful place, and I don't support such efforts, EVER. If this were the<BR>
<BR>
ditto.<BR>
<BR>
> >case, then Japan would be more violent than the US (do you ever watch<BR>
> >anime? that stuff is on network TV!) but instead their crime rate is much<BR>
> >lower. Actually I think that these TV programs provide people with a<BR>
> >needed outlet for their emotional energies.<BR>
<BR>
Poul Anderson wrote some short stories around those themes, once.<BR>
<BR>
> Japanese kids watch cartoons, movies, and tv shows that are more violent<BR>
> than what we see in North America, and they play more violent video games.<BR>
<BR>
DBZ! DBZ! Add Dragonball Z to the action flick marathon! How<BR>
many episodes are we up to? 80? (And Vegeta is BAACK! Yay!)<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1281<BR>
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